:-)

NICELY done, Jon! I think you have a sub 3:15 in you.

Next week try this: 7 mile run, 1 mi easy, 5 miles @ 7:15, 1 mi easy.

The following week run a 6 miler, 1 mile easy, 4 miles @ 7:00, 1 mi easy.

Third week run 6 mile, 2 miles easy, 3 miles @ 6:45, 1 mile easy.

Tell me what you think!

You're doing awesome!!!

You guys are math wizzes. I wonder if I'll get as technical as you cool runners. I'm really impressed with your workouts and your speed Jon, you definitely know what you're doing.

Jon -

I think Smooth is trying to kill you :-)

If you go to runnersworld.com they have a smart coach and it will spit out the paces for your abilities. Those are some dang nice speed miles though!

Smooth (or should I say Coach?) - Would that be considered my "speed" work or is that "tempo"? I would really like a 3:15. The long run discourages me.

Jun - You are a cool runner. I wish I was as adventurous as you. I should go run some trails! Oh, and I don't know what I'm doing, that is why Coach is here!

Jeff - FUNNY! I was thinking the same thing. "I'm a dead man." I'll look into the smart coach and see what I can learn.

Jon,

I consider that a tempo run. Some defines tempo pace as 10K race pace. To me, the trick in running these tempo miles is concentration, to keep that steady pace, somewhat uncomfortable for 4 miles. I have seen you run low 7 mm. You have the ability to run sub 7's mm pace. It won't kill you. I promise. Do these tempo run once a week, on a fairly flat course.

To run a 3:15 marathon, you'd want to try to run a 5K in 20:05, a 10K in 42:00 and a half-marathon in 1:33:30.

Long runs is the bread and butter of marathon training. I'd tried different tricks to help me get thru them. One of my favorite tricks is to break it up or divide it in segments. You know you can run 5 miles easy. So think of running four 5 milers. For example, run the 1st 5 miler nice and easy, enjoy the scenary may be at 90 min slower than marathon pace; the 2nd at 60 min slower, 3rd set at 30 min. slower and the last set at marathon pace. This teaches you to start out slow and finish strong. It helps tremendously to have a running partner who makes the miles go by fast.

As for speed work: there are all kinds of intervals from 400 to 1200 meters, hill repeats, mile repeats. Do these no more than once a week.

We have a little less than 13 weeks to train for SGM. What's your time goal for SGM? Keep up the good work. You're doing it!!!!

Jonny,

Plugged in the 3:15 time on smartcoach and it says to run tempos @ between 6:49 and 7:00 pace.

I don't know if this link will work or not

http://www.runnersworld.com/cda/smtcresults/1,7144,s6-238-277-278-0-0-0-0,00.html?metr=miles&hour=3&mins=15&secs=0&rlen=mara&rdst=mara&mpwe=31&startf=123xyz&diff=mod&lrdy=6&slen=13&trainstart=ds1243886605594

Here's a calculator I like. Plug in your latest race time or trial time and it will give you all the paces you are capable of training for various workouts:

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com

You are your very own SMART COACH!!! :)

Oh man, this scares me!!!!!!!!!

Ok, I'm gonna try some of this your telling me Smooth. I'm concerned I will die. :-)

Ok, so, the RW plan looks like this:

Mon - Easy

Tues - Rest/RX

Wed - Tempo/Speed

Thurs - Easy

Fri - Rest/RX

Sat - Long

Sun - Rest

Can I do tempo and speed in the same week? The speed stuff is interesting to me. I would really like to get 3:15. Wow that would be cool.

Oh Smooth, you said on the long run to try and do 5 miles "90 min" slower than MP, did you mean 90 seconds?

Jon, I meant to say seconds, not minutes. My bad!

And yes, you can do speed and tempo the same week. That's exactly what I'm doing this training cycle. Just make sure you have at least one rest day between the two. These are hard workouts. They won't kill you. They just make you get out of your comfort zone and bring out the AWESOME SPEEDINESS that's been hiding in your legs.

Jon,

Just one speed workout a week unless you recover well from the first one. If so, do your other speed workout as part of your long run on Sat. Warm up and then do the speed and then finish long run at easy pace.

What she is saying to do is what I do on my training. Follow the FIRST plan. Its what I have been training for also. The nice thing about the program is just knowing what to go out and do for each workout. And at what paces and such to do them in. And if your really serious about it. I could run with you some of the longs too. So we can run at the same paces and such. Since I am also going for a 3:15 at SG. And would be doing the same as what she is suggesting. But its up to you man.

Smooth - Your a great coach. I'm excited to try your suggestions. Right now I'm concerned about my "bread and butter." I need to increase those miles!

Jeff - There seems to be a consensus on running some of the "long" run fast. I've always looked at it as slow and steady.

Thanks Hauns (Mark), what is the "FIRST" program? I will take you up on the long run sometime. I think I need to get someone for every long run. My mind is just not focusing in. I hear things like YOU are shooting for 3:15 and I think there is no way I will make it, you are very fast.

That is the format that S. Sundwall does so it can't be all bad :)

I did some speed in my long runs on my last(2nd) marathon training and feel it helped a ton when it came time to race.

There is a book called Run Less Run Fast. Which is the FIRST program. Has alot of good info in the book and some training programs. Basically just running 3 runs a week and 2 days for cross training. With the 3 days being speedwork, tempo and long. It just takes like your 5k, 10k or half distance. And putting it into a program of 16 weeks. I really like it. For alot of reasons. But check it out. Your getting really close to that 3:15 and it can help get you closer. I have did the like 3:45 and got 3:42 when I did it 2 years ago at SG. And since I have improved alot faster and can do the 20:05 so training again for the 3:15 and BQ for me.

Oh btw I am sure I ran into you in SG at the running store down there before Painters. I think you mentioned you stayed with Smooth right??

Mark, Yeah. I was at the running store at the same time Kelli and Scott, Marion and showed up, oh and Sasha came in while I was there. That was fun.

I remember seeing you run back to pick someone up at Spectrum. You had an awesome time on that one.

I technically need 3:20 for my BQ, but I have told myself 3:15.

Ok, I'll start more seriously this training next week. I'm going to Seattle with Kelly and I will be in a car all day Thursday, and all day Saturday. I may be able to squeeze a run in on Friday, but that time will be limited also.

So, Monday I will do speed work:

1 mile warm up

1200 x 1

400 active recover (or do you guys go by time)

1000 x 1

Active recover

800 x 1

Active recover

600 x 1

Active recover

400 x 1

Cool down.

So question is, am I looking for a total distance here? This is like 5 miles, maybe 6 if I have long recover segments. If I need to, do I add extra miles up front or at the end?

You MUST do at least 1 mile warm-up and cool-down and 1.5 certainly wouldn't hurt. I do 1.5 - 2 miles easy and then stretch, then do a few quick strides to get ready for the faster pace speedwork. I like to drink/ingest something directly after speedwork and before my cooldown, it seems to help me recover more quickly.

Jon, I did a similar interval speed work last week. I ran 2 miles for warm up, did the intervals (starting at 1000 meter instead of 1200 m like yours) and ran 2.25 miles uphill home for a total of 8.25 miles. My recovery intervals (RI) were all 200 m. So the speed work segments equal to 4 miles.

Depends on how much time you have, you can cut the cool down to 1 mile. Oh, I also did some dynamic flexibility exercise (just a couple minutes) after the 2 miles warm up; and Yoga stretches after the cool down.

Jon, not sure what your question is. For speed work, the focus isn't so much on distance. The purpose of speed work is to improve your running efficiency, i.e. running form, fast twitch muscles, VO2 max. So the focus is more on the time than on distance. Does it make sense? You can certainly include speed work in your long run. I have never done that, inserting interval runs in my long run, so I don't know.

K, this is what I think would work, straight from the book:

Run 10-20 min. warm up

1200 m @ 4:33

1000 m @ 3:44

800 m @ 2:58

600 m @ 2:13

400 m @ 1:27

All with RIs of 200m in between (walk, jog, doesn't matter)

10 min. cool down

You're the data boy, you can figure the total time and distance. Hope this helps.

You guys are awesome. I think I may try this tomorrow. Think that is ok? Since I will be out for couple days for recovery?

Nice job!!!

Have fun in Seattle!

Did you run the intervals? I hope you get out early to beat the heat. Have a great time in Seattle. Take lotsa pictures. Look forward to hearing all about it.

You still in Seattle??

Hope you are having fun!

You're having way too much fun! We need a report! j/k. :)